The craft of piano playing

[bangity]

Hi, I just ordered the DVD and hoping that I would be able to play without tiring and hurting the arms(tendons) so much.

Whenever I play fast pieces like Chopin Op.10 Nr. 4 or Fantasie Impromptu.. The tendon gets hurt when I practice fast.. I even try to think and relax completely but that doesn't go too well. But When I play slow (really slow) I don't feel anything.. It's all natural.

So, Should I just practice slow for awhile then speed it up? This could take a long time but I think this is the only wait for me not to get hurt.

Another question is, What is the different between the DVD and the Book? Is it worth to get the book also?

I am hoping that there will be better technique and ways to learn pieces without hurting and maybe faster? I learn pieces by memorizing parts because I can memorize really quick, then I don't read the sheet anymore. Do you think how long a normal student can acquire these skills?

And also the left hand part of the Beethoven Pathetique, The longer I play it, the slower it becomes and It starts to kind of locked me from playing.

Thanks!

[alan fraser]

Look, from your style of writing I would advise you to watch the film and really try to learn something about your hand. Don't just think that if you do a bit more slow practice before speeding it up that everything will be OK.

If you are hurting when you play, then you need to find out which parts of your playing mechanism you are not using optimally: the finger, the hand, the wrist, the forearm, or higher. It is a complex situation and cannot be solved superficially. I am afraid that if you don't slow down and think more, you may eventually hurt yourself more badly than you have so far. This is a serious warning!

Try to understand the real function of the hand on the keyboard. You may need to change everything about your playing to solve this.

The film has the advantage of showing things in a very tangible way; the book has the advantage of spelling things out in a lot more detail. Thus I would watch the film but also read the book in order to think more about the things you saw in the film.

Good luck,

AFF
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Craft of Piano technique - the synthesis of mind, body and spirit in sound...
www.alanfraser.net
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[bangity]

Sorry for my english! Thanks a lot! I am going to order the book now.

Well, the thing is that I just started to have a teacher for about 11 months(self-studied before having the teacher for about 2years).. I couldn't even play scales properly last year. Everyone at the music school told me that I have progressed 3 to 4 times faster than other students. I can play Mozart and other slow pieces fine! That chopin etude hurts but the Scriabin etude op8 nr12 doesn't hurt at all..

Could you please see if there is anything wrong with my hands in this video? http://youtube.com/watch?v=AjZ_zNkjiEc

and Sorry for the mistakes... I don't have that much technique since I only started awhile back.

[alan fraser]

Hey, Bangity! You've gotta change your name, you don't bang at all! What you do is very nice! You're a natural! If you can play like this in little over a year of study, I am very impressed! Your fingers have a natural instinct to move, they look good. Everything looks good - BUT: you say you have pain, and if you observe extremely closely, you can perceive the possible seeds of this. For instance at the opening of the A section theme, you don't quite achieve speed easily, and there seems to be some sort of subtle struggle going on in your hand. I think it's because of the following:

The relationship between finger, metacarpal-phalangeal joint, hand, wrist and forearm is not completely worked out. Sometimes there is a hint of the wrist coming a bit too high and exerting pressure down through the hand and finger, leading to possible tension in the deep & superficial flexors (in the film I mistakenly call them the long & short flexors) as they now need to fight against this pressure from above in order to activate the finger.

But remember, much of the time you are doing things absolutely right, so you are going to have to investigate in a detailed way to uncover those moments when the anomaly sneaks in. For instance, the way you use your hand & arm to make the melody sing in the B section is really very fine.

I think you're gonna love the film, as I believe it will offer you a clear way of resolving this anomaly, if you attend to what it shows very closely, and allow the things you see on screen to be felt in your own hand.

I wish you luck, and please do keep in touch to let us know how you're getting on!

AFF
_________________
Craft of Piano technique - the synthesis of mind, body and spirit in sound...
www.alanfraser.net
www.craftofpiano.com
www.pianotechnique.net

[jocahdj]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Very good playing indeed! After 2 years of playing, that's really something!
The Craft of Piano Playing will help you use your body and playing apparatus better. Once you understand how your playing mechanisms work you will also understand/teach yourself how to "relax" and play without tension.

Jovan
_________________

[bangity]

Thanks a lot Mr. Fraser! That's a very detailed explanation. I feel the same too.. When at section A at the down run, yes the wrist is high.. wow, you could see everything. But at the slow section, everything was completely relaxed.

I just figured out one thing last night when I was starting to not feeling comfortable in my playing.. Well, the piano action is a little heavier than the regular one at my school and thus it takes more energy to play. Therefore, I get hurt easier. So, I was playing around and figured that If I sit at the piano farther than what I have used to sit for about 10 more cm.. I have more strength and the pain is much much less, or not at all. I don't know why but the wrist seems to straighten out more.

Sorry, that's a nick name my friends gave me a long time ago. Bang is also my real name. Yeah, I know it's weird but there are accents and the meaning supposed to be different. Sorry! I will try to change name when I get to college...

and Thanks Jovan, I am really looking forward to this since I don't have my teacher is very young and thus unable to solve my problem.

[alan fraser]

Dear Bang,

If that is really your name, then maybe we should focus on developing your sound, as I explain in my book, by cultivating a very vigorous keystroke that rebounds nicely thus evading all tension but making the soundboard really 'bong!'

But this is for later, first resolve the anomaly mentioned above. You are right, sitting further away straightens your wrist out and makes it less likely to take over from the metacarpal-phalangeal joint. This may not be a forever, longterm solution but as a step along the path to sensing and understanding your own physical organization better, it is certainly a move in the right direction.

Cheers,

AFF
_________________
Craft of Piano technique - the synthesis of mind, body and spirit in sound...
www.alanfraser.net
www.craftofpiano.com
www.pianotechnique.net

[bangity]

I just received the dvd and enjoying it so far...

About the Arch section. I notice that my hands are already in the arch form but there are pieces when I play the arch wouldn't maintain itself. Otherwise, it is much harder to play the piece.

Also, I have a question about the thumb. My teacher just told me that I am hurting the tendon because I don't use the thumb correctly. For example, in the octaves playing of the chopin etude op10 nr4. I rotate the hand to play that. But she was talking about use the muscle of the thumb instead. I am confused.

And, Do you think that If I apply the correct playing technique and do slow practice, does that help? Because I know that It doesn't matter what technique If I don't do slow practice, I would hurt myself instantly (about 3 mins of fast playing). Even though after I applied some oil(chinese medicine), the pain would go away and I can practice light pieces like Mozart instantly.

[alan fraser]

Dear Bang,

Good questions all...

1) About your hand's arch: you have perceived the problem and described it very well. As you go through the film you will see how, after postulating the necessity of that arch, I go more and more into the problem of how to maintain it (the action of the lumbricals & interossei, the grasping action). Hopefully this will help you become more aware of what you could do in practical terms to help your own arch when it doesn't seem to want to help itself. It might even be something as simple as learning to lift your fingers in certain situations, as I show in chapter 8.

2) Your thumb in octaves: which way do you rotate your hand? If you let the fifth finger side of your hand drop lower than the central peak, your second finger's metacarpal-phalangeal arch, then you may well indeed be copying what you see in my film but getting yourself in trouble. Since I made the film I have further developed my understanding of the difference between the hand and the thumb. The hand's transverse arch should not slope to the outside as I show in the film: this is a mistake! The fifth finger knuckle and second finger knuckle should be more or less at the same height. The thumb functions less as a completion of the hand's arch and more as a support strut for that arch that sticks out to the inside of the hand.

On the other hand, if you rotate your hand the other way, pronating it in order to move your thumb into its key, you may be using that movement to compensate for a lazy thumb. This would make the space between thumb and forefinger collapse, allowing the other side of your hand's arch to sink too low. If this is the case, your teacher is right. You have to activate your thumb's muscles, and especially that one particular muscle I show in the film, the first dorsal interosseous, to help it be a better support strut. I suspect that you are suffering from this second variant, a necessary pronation but without the necessary activity from the thumb to make it work.

3) OF COURSE, teaching your reflexes the correct playing technique by introducing it in a slow tempo is the way to go, and especially necessary for you because you are such a natural. You have talent, so there's a natural tendency for you to just rely on your instincts and play - but as you see, your mechanism, for all its very fine capability, still needs some education.

Thanks for some very pertinent questions, I always welcome the opportunity to clarify these complex issues. Please do let me know how things develop.

AFF
_________________
Craft of Piano technique - the synthesis of mind, body and spirit in sound...
www.alanfraser.net
www.craftofpiano.com
www.pianotechnique.net

[bangity]

Thanks! Now, I know about the rotation part. As in that octaves section, It is very fast, therefore I rotate it as less as possible to maintain the speed.

But in the Beethoven Pathetique, I do the rotations very large and that doesn't hurt at all. Even when I didn't use much muscle of the thumb. I just use its muscle to make it stay in place.

So, Fifth's knuckle and second's knuckle have to be in the same height when rotating? And when I use the thumb, second, middle, and fifth as support. It is very hard to lift the forth finger high enough to activate the key nicely. If you do a lot of rotations but it doesn't hurt the wrist, finger, or the tendon parts of the arm. Is it correct even though the upper part of the arm get tired. Is it because lack of muscle? That part still get tired even when Not rotating at the piano, just in the air.

And Thanks again for a detailed explanation.

[alan fraser]

[bangity]

I am having forearm pain after a practice section. Now, I can say that I could play the etude without pain(maybe just for today).. Don't know why..

But the Fantasie Impromptu, At the section after the down run and when I use the thumb to make the melodies, It hurts.. I stopped and carefully observe the hand to find what is wrong.. But there isn't any weird. Well, there is no arch because it is in octaves (not completely no arch though but little), I even sit lower and follow the sitting posture of (What Every Pianist Needs to Know about the body). Sitting becomes easier and thus The wrist is straighten out than usual. Even though it's straighten out, I still have pain. even tried to use the thumb muscle but didn't work.

and after trying out sitting on the sit bone, my lower back is more tired than usual, maybe because I'm not used to it yet. If you are playing with a really tired body, does that affect any of these. Because I can only practice after I get home and I am always exalted.

Today, I found out that the teacher I was talking about is from Julliard.. Unfortunately, she is not my private teacher. I was at her and her husband concert turning the page. They play like crazy, super.

[alan fraser]

Of course, playing when you are tired you are more prone to hurting yourself. You must take all the more care to organize yourself well. When you play really well-organized you feel energized afterwards instead of tired - but this capacity takes time to learn and develop.

I do caution you. I sense that you have a lot of positive energy and enthusiasm, but that you need to take more care and not expect huge advances overnight - building a technique is a long, slow, painstaking process. As Feldenkrais always said, "Go slow in order to go fast!"

AFF
_________________
Craft of Piano technique - the synthesis of mind, body and spirit in sound...
www.alanfraser.net
www.craftofpiano.com
www.pianotechnique.net