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The craft of piano playing Welcome to the CRAFT OF PIANO PLAYING forum, dedicated to Alan Fraser's approach to piano technique. If you are familiar with the book or DVD, or interested in finding out more, please post your impressions, thoughts, questions and advice...
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lucio
Joined: 07 Jul 2010 Posts: 5
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Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:01 am Post subject: Horowitz' Fortissimo |
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In one of Mr. Fraser's blogs, he talked about how Horowitz didn't play that loud, but that he created the illusion of loudness through skillful manipulation of overtones. Does that mean that Horowitz' fortissimo wouldn't be any higher in decibels than the fortissimi of other pianists? How did you come to the realization about the illusion of Horowitz' sound?
Some people, such as Schonberg and Dubal, have talked about how Horowitz' sound could ride over the loudest orchestra and could pierce the eardrums. If his tone could hurt the ears and overpower an orchestra, that would seem to suggest that it truly was loud. Or were Dubal and Schonberg recounting inaccurate aural perceptions, as a result of being fooled by the illusion of Horowitz' sonority? |
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alan fraser The Expert on Piano Technique

Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 701 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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Fascinating question.
We came to this deduction through experience. Trying out his piano, we found that playing at normal volumes totally destroyed any chance of having the extraordinarily rich overtone series that this instrument offers, sound. We had to lower overall volumes in order to increase the possibility for differentiation between voices, and lo and behold, that magical, burnished sound would start to appear.
Horowitz did play louder earlier on, but even then I think that possibly to some extent it was the fact that he was cultivating this illusion. He did have tremendous strength in his hands, but he went more and more in the direction of using that strength to differentiate rather than simply play loud. Kemal has spent years arriving at this and only relatively recently "entered that world" full force.
You need the strength before you can refine it.
Then you need the intelligence and the ear to refine it.
AFF _________________ Craft of Piano technique - the synthesis of mind, body and spirit in sound...
www.alanfraser.net
www.craftofpiano.com
www.pianotechnique.net |
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Eric
Joined: 13 Aug 2008 Posts: 110
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:16 am Post subject: |
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I got the impression that VH liked heavy actions in his younger days maybe the last piano with it's alterations was a logical step for an older man an experiment that turned out to allow him to explore the sounduniverse even more a good example of a never ending search for refinement.
Probably the sound was during relatively longer on that instrument?
I guess what you write about strength is controversial but I beleive you. In a way it's sad news because it takes a very long time to build up that strength.Building up strength and with that develop differentiation and softplaying seems to be the paradoxal task.
But the good news are that many fine pianists don't have that strength and still can play beautifully.While they're gaining strength and refinement...
I try to follow Gekic from recordings I must admit I never heard anything like it does anybody know if he's performing in europe this year?
Best regards |
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alan fraser The Expert on Piano Technique

Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 701 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Kemal also has extremely strong hands.
The trouble is, it's not really so effective to build up hand strength through normal exercise (although I remember when I recorded Russian Recital I did work out an got myself up to five or six chinups a day, which was a BIG change for me). The strength is differentiated from the start. The more you TRY to orchestrate, the more you will sense this strength developing to meet your musical demands.
I feel many of us have a relatively one-dimensional sound (albeit beautiful) because we have accepted the reduced palette as our aesthetic, feeling it's the only one possible - because of our strength limitations.
It's a tricky question - they say that Horowitz did bang unmercifully at one point in his youth, and I've often wondered whether we too must go through some sort of stage like this if we want to come out on the other side stronger, better pianists.
I often spend time with my students developing their capacity for "creative banging," and they often at first feel they mustn't do it because it creates an ugly sound. But if they do it with a well-organized hand, they soon learn to recognize the new, powerful sound as a robust, healthy and fully appropriate forte, something far more attractive than their previous insipid attempts...
Kemal performs a lot in Japan and the USA but rarely in Europe. I can keep you posted if I hear he's coming. There might be a concert/master class in Trossingen, Germany this season but it is not confirmed yet...
VH switched to a lighter action quite early. And yes, the sustain on that instrument is so fantastic you feel you are playing an organ - it is uncanny!
AFF _________________ Craft of Piano technique - the synthesis of mind, body and spirit in sound...
www.alanfraser.net
www.craftofpiano.com
www.pianotechnique.net |
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Eric
Joined: 13 Aug 2008 Posts: 110
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for the tip-just what I needed to hear right now.
Been trying the opposite for a while to get a more light effortless feeling-with catastrofic results. Works well in the kitchen but not in a performance.
As soon as you give up orchestration the "strength" seems to disappear things start to get uneven and unbalanced.
Last weeks I've dedicated to the 2nd finger beeing completely maniac about its position stability and the "feelings" through this finger on every occasion it's used.The sound approved considerably and got more "rubinsteinesque" which wasn't really what i looked for.
I'm not a fan of exercises but isn't playing scales in thirds etc a good way of building strength? Especially if you alter the voices. A good way to check if your second and thumb are with you or against you.
Guess it's a bit like ashtanga-yoga it takes many years to build that fenomenal strength and it's not visible.I have a friend whose hands you don't want to shake.
By the way they say Godowsky was all armweight-I came across his fingerexercises lately-my god those hands must have been pure steel.
Best regards |
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alan fraser The Expert on Piano Technique

Joined: 22 Jul 2006 Posts: 701 Location: Novi Sad, Serbia
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Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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Catastrophic results... I know them well. See my chapters on Arm Weight in Honing, especially what happened when I first tried to put Carola Grindea's advice into practice...
Double thirds are excellent, of course, provided you do them intelligently!
"Godowsky was all arm weight..." Well, he THOUGHT he was all arm weight - that was his subjective experience... but he had fingers that worked, that's for sure!
AFF _________________ Craft of Piano technique - the synthesis of mind, body and spirit in sound...
www.alanfraser.net
www.craftofpiano.com
www.pianotechnique.net |
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